Interview with Pierre-Emmanuel Taittinger
Pierre-Emmanuel
Taittinger, 54, an ex-Marine captain in French forces in
Martinique, is well known as a forthright, opinionated
speaker with resonant voice and take-charge personality;
though he may rail against what he regards as absurdities in
the business, he tempers his assertiveness with a courtly,
occasionally confiding, genteel manner, and is ever the
amusing, logical, urbane, and cordial conversationalist. He
was accompanied that day by his 29-year-old son, Clovis,
soft-spoken and still a tad shy, who was recently lured by
his father from the lucrative world of finance and real
estate to the family’s lately reacquired generations-old and
world-famous wine business; the blond youngster listens,
observes, eventually finds his voice, and quietly shared his
earnest views.
FRED BOUCHARD Please catch our readers up with the recent
divesting by the Taittinger Corporation of its holdings, and
your family’s subsequent repurchasing of the wineries and
vineyards.
PIERRE-EMMANUEL TAITTINGER
It’s very clear. My family is a large one, with seven
branches. The family wanted to sell the entire Corporation
for tax purposes and simply to get their money. (Seagrams
did likewise some years ago.) We put it up for auction and
an American group, Starwood, bought it all – Champagne
Taittinger, Domaine Carneros, the Loire valley winery,
Baccarat Crystal, Hotel du Crillon, Societe du Louvre –
everything. That was the will of 9O% of my family. Me, I was
in the 1O% who wanted to keep the business. But – I am a
democrat – and I had to accept the majority decision. And we
do all get along well. My son and I were a little sad, but
we had no choice. But then, Starwood stated, “We are a real
estate group, we are not specialized in wines.” So they
decided to sell off Taittinger and Carneros to specialists.
Then our branch of the family – my father, brother and
children – decided to become candidates to repurchase at
least our winery. So they put it on sale, and here were at
least ten candidates, from India, America, Britain. So we
banded with Credit Agricole, a powerful bank in Champagne,
and fought a hard fight for a year with bigger giants. We
finally won, partly because we proposed a large check –
after debt absorption, about 59OM Euro – but also because we
were a family-run affair, like Starwood itself. In the
package was the Loire winery and Carneros. We sold the Loire
for technical reasons; we liked the very well run winery and
the chairman, a very nice man. It was done in a genial
manner. But we’re keeping Carneros. And we’re still on good
terms with our family, who can always get the preferred
discount on Champagne!
FB That’s good, because the
press likes to turn these things into “Dynasty”
struggles.
PT It was not at all so
dramatic!
FB So the French government
had no hand or say in the proceedings?
PT No, it was never a
question of nationality. If that were the case, they’d not
have decided to let Americans and Indians into the bidding.
I read about such things in the newspaper, but it was not
the case at all. If we had not been the best candidates, we
would have lost it.
FB Are most other major
French maisons still French owned?
PT At the present time they
are, but that was not always so. Mumm and Perrier-Jouet were
for a long time owned by Seagrams. Now they are back in the
Pernod-Ricard portfolio. Bollinger, Pommery, Pol Roger, and
Roederer are still privately owned. But the point is this:
all of us – Moet, Veuve Clicquot, Taittinger, everyone –
must maintain excellent relationships with the growers. I’ll
explain myself. We own 5O% of our grapes, with among the
largest holdings in Champagne [at about 6OO
hectares]. It gives us a lot of security and
consistency. But lots of firms in Champagne own no
vineyards. Since 8O% of the vineyards belong to the growers,
it’s better if the houses are owned by local families, not
some consortium in Bombay.
FB That makes
sense.
PT In fact, my son Clovis
has left his lucrative career in real estate to return to
Champagne to help me as I head towards retirement. He is
with us for two main purposes: the first is to take over my
position to travel the world and speak about Taittinger, as
I have done it for thirty years, especially in your
beautiful part of the world, the United States. The other
5O% is to build, or rather maintain, relationships with the
growers. That is, have lunch and chat; it’s day to day work
in Champagne that must be done at the highest level, because
we must maintain optimum grapes, and Clovis must make
decisions minute to minute without having to consult with
bosses overseas. If you want to succeed in Champagne, you
must make decisions on the spot, with a handshake. It’s the
same way with Domaine Carneros; when we set it up in 1988,
we hired a full American staff, headed by winemaker Madame
Eileen Crane. No French person works at the Domaine. You
remember what happened to Euro-Disney? In France they put
American management at the top, and after three years –
kaputt! Then they changed to French management, and things
went much better.
FB Carneros has enjoyed an
exceptionally stable staff?
PT Madame Crane does a fine
job because we leave her in peace, we respect her creativity
and judgment. We respect her philosophy, and share the same
fundamentals – quality, delicacy, elegance. She will never
quit us, because she does not report to us every day. She is
an artist, as we are. When I’m not traveling, I’m at home
with my family and checking on the wines every day with the
cellar master and the enologist. We look at the blends,
visit the vineyards, touch the grapes, touch the
land.
FB You have quite a broad
portfolio! How do you characterize the Taittinger style vis
a vis other grande marque Champagnes?
PT We are first and
foremost a Chardonnay house. That is not so throughout
Champagne. The best Chardonnay comes from the renowned Cote
de Blancs. We’re the first company to introduce the high
percentage of Chardonnay in all our wines. Brut La Francaise
is 4O%. Comtes de Champagne is 1OO%, a blanc de blanc. Our
wines are extremely fine, delicate, masculine but also
feminine, wines of seduction. They are not too full-bodied
or powerful; not to say we don’t like that, but it’s not our
style. Bollinger, Roederer are fabulous Champagnes, they’re
different. We cultivate our differences. Beaudelaire is not
Rimbaud. Picasso is not Van Gogh. Beethoven is not Mozart.
That’s why I am against numerical scores and have been
fighting them for years. Can you say Greta Garbo is a 19 and
Brigitte Bardot is 15? In America you have too much the
religion of the numbers, which is the opposite of the wine
world, which means to create harmony and friendship, without
competition. We must not kill our personality to please the
palate of one man. (In fact, I think Mr Parker, an estimable
gentleman, has tempered his judgments a bit more now.) We
have competition worldwide for the sports, cars, politics.
At least with food and wine, please let us enjoy them as
pure artistry. The same goes also with the preoccupation for
sales and production numbers. What are a few hundred cases
here or there?
FB We are all slaves to the
abacus . . .
PT My uncle Claude taught
me one thing: Champagne is magic that we must think about
every day. Let’s celebrate the magic. When I’m in Tokyo in
front of a score of very serious sommeliers, one may ask,
“How many bubbles are there in this glass?” Does a mother
count the hairs on her baby’s head? It’s an absurdity. Nor
do I believe in nationality. When I travel the world, I am
not French, I am Taittinger. When I met Robert Mondavi, he
was to me not an American, he was Mondavi. If I did not
regard myself as an artist, I should choose another
business. My son, Clovis, has made more money in real estate
and finance in six years than I could ever make in a
lifetime in Champagne. I asked him to join me and take a
deep salary cut, because it’s a mission. Likewise, we are
not going to beat the world, we’re not going to double
production. I bought it back because I didn’t want
Taittinger to change. I wanted to keep my friends at
Kobrand, and maintain our distribution network
worldwide.
FB What’s your advertising
policy?
PT We can either put money
into ad spaces or put it into the grapes. We prefer the
latter. But I’m confident that my wines will speak for
themselves. When we have a bit of money left over, yes, we
take an ad in the newspaper. But it is always an
afterthought. Champagne is the affordable luxury. We can’t
all afford a Maserati, a Rolex, or a private castle, but we
can afford a fine Champagne. We Taittingers have a bit of
Austrian blood in us; the family was Austrian 5OO years ago.
So we are maniacal on creativity. And we also have a great
sense of organization. To compare us to a car, I would not
say we’re like Rolls-Royce or Ferrari, because they are
fabulous, but sometimes they do not work. Rather we are more
like the BMW – extremely reliable, solid, comfortable to
work with (or drive), no noise and always works. In fact, in
France today I drive a Saab, because it will take ethanol,
and I am very conscious of the environment.
FB How does your stand on
global warming affect how you run the company and
vineyards?
PT Let me answer that with
another glass of Champagne . . . Global warming is the major
issue for the planet. It’s the Third World War, and we are
in it right now. For the last ten years, the wine world has
been positively affected by global warming – good harvest,
regular harvest – but it’s not going to continue. In the
long term, it’s going to change our way of life
dramatically, and for the worst. I am very pessimistic about
this. We’re recycling, using vehicles less, driving cars
with ethanol, and planning our business activities to
conserve. We’re avoiding unnecessary business travel,
shipping wines by train instead of truck. We’re extremely
conscientious. At home, we don’t take baths anymore, only
brief showers; I think of water now as more precious that
Champagne.
FB I don’t own a car, I
take my bike or public transport.
PT You are right! You are a
pioneer! Because of America dragging its feet on Kyoto
Accords and elsewhere, we all have lost eight crucial years
in the battle. America is like Moet-Chandon: it’s so big and
powerful, it affects everything. If Moet does something good
for Champagne, we all benefit. The good thing about this war
is that we are all affected, rich and poor alike. Why do we
want to spend billions to go on Mars, already a dead planet,
when we might be soon on a dead Earth?
FB Are you taking a stand
on the matter publicly, in your business?
PT Absolutely. Last year I
spoke to 4OO billionaires in Singapore about my concerns. We
are not General Motors, but we make our voice heard. We do
it by our voice, company policy and personal
actions.
FB Can you comment on the
utility of Champagne bottles other than 75Os?
PT Half-bottles today are
superbly made, just like full bottles. Personally I
recommend the half-bottle for a lunch for two, say, me and
my wife, so you don’t waste a full bottle. I adore that.
Magnums have their role too, I like to say it’s just the
right size for two gentlemen. When people ask me whether
Champagne is better in magnum, I say yes, but mainly for
psychological reasons . . . Notice that the bubbles are less
in this glass. Restaurants use detergents these days that
keep the bubbles from appearing in the glass. We recommend
using very hot water and no soap; that will do for
practically every mark but lipstick. The important thing is
that you feel the bubbles in the mouth, whether you can see
them or not.
FB What is your view of the
possible future use of Stelvin and other non-cork closures
for Champagne?
PT Ah, that needs a
comment. At the moment we are using corks made of three
layers. It’s true that there’s a sort of magic behind such a
thing, but it’s also true that there is a defect that causes
us to lose 1 in 1OO or more bottles. It’s a small
percentage, but for three centuries, we don’t like corky
bottles. Today the problem is even more important because we
need cork all over the world, and the cork producers cannot
follow the demand, and sometimes because of it the quality
of the cork is affected. If you complain, they shrug, and
sell their corks elsewhere. In Champagne, we search, we
research, to find if there is a better solution, perhaps a
compromise between cork and a product that permits the air
exchange. If a man who is not rich goes into a store and
buys for once in his life a bottle of Mouton Rothschild, or
Dom Perignon, or La Tache, or Comtes de Champagnes, he does
not deserve to be disappointed with a bad cork. So, I am not
opposed to a new solution. I will not say ‘no’ to anything,
because I think we have to progress, and when you have a
corky bottle, that is not progress.
FB Please explain your
preference for your style of making rosé.
PT The traditional way
(saignee) is when you leave the skins with the juice. It
does not cost money to go this way. There is another way
that I prefer that is time-consuming and expensive. That is
to produce beautiful red wine from Champagne’s best
villages, Grand Cru Pinot Noir, and after they are matured
in vats for a long time, we add them after the first
fermentation and just before the tirage, between 1O and 25%.
We much prefer this process, because the color is more
persistent and the fruitiness of the wine
remarkable.
FB What is your program of
gentle education for those countries where people drink
Champagne only in times of ‘celebration’?
PT For 3OO years, Champagne
has been known as the wine to drink at grand occasions, such
as year-end holidays and weddings and graduations. But more
and more, Champagne is becoming known as a wine to enjoy at
lunch and dinner. Why? Because Champagne matches well all
types of gastronomy: French, Asian, Greek, fusion, Chinese,
Japanese, Indian. It’s very good with spices because it does
refresh your palate. If you are with a nice partner, you are
not tired after Champagne; you are active, in good form,
perhaps slightly excited. The only problem is that you might
want to make love, and that is not a serious problem. That
is why there is a new attitude towards Champagne all over
the planet.
FB Having said that, do you
think it is a good idea for young or new drinkers to
acclimatize their palate for bubbly with Cava, Prosecco,
Sekt?
PT I will go even further:
I will say that a good Champagne drinker has been a Coca
Cola lover. As a child, you get used to the soda bubbles.
After that, you go to a good beer, or Sprite. When you’re
3O, with a little more money, you go to a sparkling wine. At
3O, you don’t need anything special; you can charm a lady
with beauty. At 35, we need a little help: a nice car, a
nice suit, Champagne. It’s a pleasure that comes with a
certain age. When I see an 18-year-old boy driving a Ferrari
and drinking Champagne, I say “too soon”.
FB Most tete de cuvees are
flashy, but this wine doesn’t seek to capture the rock-star
imagination. How was the 2OO7 harvest?
PT Ah, we had a miracle. So
much rain in July, we thought it might be lost. But then in
September we had some fresh, not humid, air and we had a
beautiful harvest of both quality and quantity.
FB Any comments on the
Massachusetts market?
PT I will just say that I
love this place, because the Taittinger spirit is very much
Boston. We are not new money, but old money of connoisseurs.
And our philosophy is Bostonian: we never show off, we love
real quality, solidity, consistency. For me, that is
Boston.
One more thing, that you
did not mention. More and more we see wine-growers making
their own Champagne and selling it. Please remember that at
Taittinger we are also wine-growers. But the difference
between a great house and wine-growers is the following:
when we started (in 1931) we had only one hectare of land.
With the money we made, we bought another hectare. And so
on. The difference is that wine-growers remained
wine-growers because they spent their money on jewelry,
houses, cars, boats. At Taittinger, we became a great house
because we were exceptional growers, are still growing, and
spend all our money on achieving perfection.
