Roger Ormon

ROGER
ORMON • 63
• Sales Manager • Brookline Liquor Mart •
Allston, MA

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After 35 years at Brookline Liquor Mart, most of it as sales
manager, Roger Ormon has acquired the long view of wine and
wine sales. Having accrued plenty of wine (and people)
wisdom, especially with tasting notes and wine classes,
Roger dispenses it with easy wit and delightful charm. As
chief note-keeper at Brookline Liquor Mart (BLM) for over
thirty years, he writes the shop’s amiably informative
newsletter and (for the last decade) email. Roger has
lovingly amassed an admirable personal wine-cellar, enjoys
noble Italian reds more than most wines, and enthuses over
collecting and savoring unusual and neglected varietals.

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FB
You’ve been a quiet enthusiast for Loire wines for some
time. Many of their terrific wines are just beginning to get
some notice, and some solid winemakers are hardly
fashionable. Let’s taste this 1989 Coteaux de Layon demi-sec
from Baumard, a house you’ve followed for what, 3O
years?
RO
More like 35; this was one of the wines that Fred Ek brought
in when he and Burt Miller established Classic Wines in
1969. So, it was just part of the BLM portfolio when I
started there in September, 197O. This demi-sec doesn’t seem
quite as pretty as my memory of it. I remember brighter,
apple-y flavors. It might fade over time, or just be the
luck of the draw. You’re familiar with Baumard’s Cuvee
Ancienne? Florent [son of founder] was telling me
last month how he and his father dealt with a few hundred
bottles of their basic Coteaux de Layon, much like this one,
from a range of vintages from the ‘6Os through the
198Os.

FB
Discovered a stash behind a wall?
RO
Something like that. These bottles weren’t going to go away,
so they bit the bullet, pulled the corks, gathered the good
ones, came up with a recipe – 5 of the 1966, 9 of the 1988,
and so on – and there emerged this wonderfully complex
blend.

FB
Why not? All good Chenin Blanc, blended like the solera
system.
RO
Exactly. That’s something we appreciate about a lot of
craftspeople who know their wood, know their cloth. Masters
of their raw materials that can make it in their
heads.

FB
Like quiltmakers.
RO
Oh, Florent was showing me all those little subsections in
the vineyards. Quarts de Chaume overlooks the Coteaux de
Layon on a big bluff with four prominent, sunnier sections
and all these little convolutions in between. He keeps track
of many individual parcels as they ripen – some behind his
house, some a few kilometers away in Savennieres. I asked
him if he used a computer. Nope, he pointed to his
head.

FB
It’s feel.
RO
Yup – feel, taste, smell – but mostly in his head. He
employs 6 to 8 people full-time, another dozen half the
year, then another 8 to 1O seasonally. It’s not such a big
estate, but that’s double the staff of most of his
neighbors.

FB
Can you think of another winery that could pull off
something like this Cuvee Ancienne blend?
RO
[pauses] Well, to a certain extent, think of the
grand châteaux of Bordeaux taking their recorking show
on the road to top off bottles of collectors around the
world. They can’t pack every vintage, but they do take
cuvees that they think will be generally useful. Mind you,
this is a relatively minor dosage; it’s like repairing an
old fabric by weaving in material that most closely matches
it.

FB
While we’re on the subject of Bordeaux, perhaps you can
enlighten me about the concept of futures, how it arose and
where it’s going.
RO
I’m not sure when
it began; in the middle of the last century, maybe the ‘3Os;
Nicholas Faith’s Bordeaux might be enlightening on that. But
you’ve got this multi-tiered system, where the first-tier
people [courtiers] are allowed to buy directly from
the chateaux on a paper-thin margin. Then there are the
actual wholesale houses in Bordeaux, it may be a little
blurred these days. Clearly it’s a way of bankrolling what
the growers have already paid for – the machinery, the
pickers and employees, the fertilizer and
supplies.

FB
It’s like buying shares in a farmer’s cooperative in May,
and collecting your carrots and lettuces in September.
RO
This works well for the American market, which always wants
to be in front of the wave.

FB
We’re too impatient to wait?
RO
Exactly. To go back to Baumard, he’s selling vintages two or
three years younger in the States than he does in Europe. I
can see Fred Ek, his agent, going to him and saying, ‘I
can’t wait three years to sell your 2OO5. I need to have it
for them while it’s still being talked about in the press.
Otherwise, it’ll be 2 to 3 years ‘behind’ everything else in
the market.’

FB
So people are buying the reviews, not the tastes? It’s all
wine spectator and Parker driven?
RO
To some degree. But it’s the US marketers – importers,
distributors and retailers – who quote ‘reviews’ in the
press to drive their sales, far more than I ever hear
consumers doing it.

FB
We certainly don’t have our own taste buds to guide us!
RO
Many count so much on the press, who are deadline-oriented.
If you’re writing a story on the Loire’s 2OO3 Chenin Blanc
harvest, you want to taste those wines and advise your
readers; who then have the expectation of buying wines based
on your advice. It’s the dynamics of United States culture
and business.

FB
That may go along with our drinking up wines too young: you
don’t find many affordable reds over 3- to 4-years-old on
wine lists.
RO
At the same time, I heard said the French say early on that
the best wines from any French winery are those just made.
And they’d scoff at English tastes: “The British love their
claret well-hung!” It’s only when a producer becomes
sufficiently capitalized that he can afford to hold back.
Surely American sales allow Baumard to delay putting to
market his European releases. In that sense, he has the best
of both worlds, and can satisfy both markets.

FB
How do you keep
customers happy over thirty years?
RO
Identifying their tastes and listening to their likes and
needs. Learning about what interests them in wine and food,
and getting a sense of their temperament. In my life, before
our architect redesigned our house, he asked us how we
lived, our interests. It seems a natural thing to do, and I
consider myself a people person. I care about the lives of
my family, buddies, colleagues. I grew up in an intimate
community of neighbors.

FB
So it’s sort of a hand-sell. How do you do it?
RO
Often by bringing people from domestic wines to European. If
they’ve tried Cabernet and Merlot, I may walk them over to
our rack of affordable Bordeaux, aged six to eight years.
Part of the story about these wines is their reputation of
very long aging, in some cases 4O to 5O years.

FB
People appreciate the rounded fruit, mellowed tannins.
RO
And the moderate alcohol, many of them at 12 to 12.5%. A
good Bordeaux is lucky to make it to 13%
naturally.

FB
As opposed to this surge of whomping great super-extracted
Mediterranean climate reds.
RO
All over California now, Fred, they’re up around 14 to 15%.
Some producers are better than others at not showing this on
the palate. But others come on like – dragon-mouth! People I
work with over time find that their tastes change and they
get tired of those big, rich, heavy, mouth-filling wines.
Oh, they’re fine if you want something big and exciting, but
day after day they become tiresome, and you can find wines
more cleanly tailored that grate less on the
palate.

FB
When America was making that transition from White Zinfandel
and Mateus to white wines, Frank Prial of the new york times
said that Americans would not soon, if ever, appreciate
serious red wines. Perhaps the pendulum has swung the other
way? Chefs today complain that patrons order martinis then
dive headlong into big Shiraz before they order chowder or
shrimp cocktail. Do reds account for more than half your
wine sales?
RO
I’m sure, especially with our emphasis on Bordeaux, Rhones,
Italians. I think we’re blessed at BLM with a clientele from
Boston’s brain trust – students, medicine, law, financial,
education – partly because of what we sell. We have a high
percentage of repeat business and referrals. People
gravitate towards us despite limited advertising; it’s word
of mouth enthusiasm.

FB
Do long-term customers show deep loyalty to honored brands
like Guigal and Baumard?
RO
For me it’s all about building that personal relationship.
Getting back to drinking older wines, after one morning
meeting in the Loire, we stopped into a small restaurant in
Vouvray for lunch. Fish, fresh and salt, was on every menu:
we took our cue from that. They offered two 1985 Vouvrays;
when I quizzed the waiter, she said she preferred the Marc
Bredif Nature. This wine [we’re drinking] has some
of its golden color, but that was fresher, brighter, a
crowd-pleaser, and a delicious match for our
food.

FB
Older whites can be fascinating. I remember visiting the
cellars of Dauvissat and Raveneau in Chablis on an Air
France press junket celebrating the bicentennial of Thomas
Jefferson’s wine route in 1987. These estimable producers
opened up some very hoary vintages in amazing condition. I
distinctly remember some cru 1959s still tasting flinty and
creamy, with citrus and biscuit nose that bore right through
Raveneau’s chain-smoking his unfiltered cigarettes. Roger,
what are your views on educating consumer palates?
RO
The idea is to put people in control of what goes into their
mouths and under their noses. That got me into the wine
education classes. There’s a thrill in passing on even small
notions of what you’ve learned to others. I attended
seminars of the Society of Wine Educators, when founding
member Jim Holsing lived in Western Massachusetts. (Today
SWE’s a dynamic organization, with links to major societies
and wine groups.) After I started at BLM, Fred Ek got me
involved in teaching some classes at Harvard University’s
Center for Lifelong Learning; when that closed I taught at
BU. Later I was invited to join the board at Boston
University’s Elizabeth Bishop Wine Center. I’d worked with
Liz at BLM; we’d taught a wine course for a group of her
husband’s employees. I’ll be teaching my two-hour ‘Wine 1O1’
again this fall at BU. I use common food samples hidden in
coffee cups to focus their attention on various aromas and
then to identify and discuss them. I keep it to basic
categories. They liked it enough to ask me back.

FB
Finding the descriptors and olfactory analogies is the wine
writer’s toughest job.
RO
Exactly. Getting tasters to discuss and decide these things
with strangers for just one night can ease them into talking
wines over with friends and family the next time. Opening
conversations is the thin end of the wedge.

FB
Why does this work better with wine than with beers and
spirits?
RO
It doesn’t! Brewers have these conversations all the time
with their staff, and I have a friend whose ability to
discuss single malt scotches is poetic. It’s a matter of
finding people to talk it over with.

FB
Roger, what do you count among your best successes?
RO
The sustaining satisfaction comes in doing missionary work,
spreading the good word of what’s in the glass, at table and
with friends. My conversations with people today are
authentic, based on their needs. A couple of customers came
to me to build and develop a wine cellar, after they had
admired the display in our rare wine room. Our conversation
lasted a year before they presented me with a budget. I came
up with a proposal, they adjusted it, I suggested
modifications, phasing. Only then did it become a real
business transaction. They weren’t especially wine savvy,
but had had good wines and good memories, and came in with
minimum standards for everyday wines and special occasion
bottles.

FB
When it comes to advising on wine cellars, you certainly
have first-hand experience.
RO
Ha ha! Yup, I’ve built two of them myself!

FB
What do you tell young professionals who want to stock a
5OO-bottle cellar, like, right now?
RO
Slow down and draw up a plan! Seriously. I’m not a good
salesman for the quick fix. I could write up a pro forma
invoice and start pulling cases, but that’s not a good
response. Dialogue is essential, in any case, with friends
and buyers. And the education is mutual,
on-going.

FB
So in a sense, a good wine salesman is an olfactory
shrink?
RO
Well, for that matter, so is a fishmonger; look at Alan Wulf
[of Wulf’s on Harvard Street in Brookline] Alan
loves building on your knowledge, sharing enthusiasms,
calling your attention to specialty items. When I first came
to BLM, I knew no more about wine than someone who’d taken a
few wine classes and read a few books. I hadn’t tasted a
huge amount of wine. So I was listening to my customers for
another reason – they’d tasted a lot more wines than I had!
Many were well-educated, well-traveled guys like Frank
Peterson, Robert Hutton, Bob Levey.

FB
Some customer base!
RO
In the 197Os, I started running my own monthly tastings in
our Brookline Village apartment. My first was white
Burgundies, Pouilly-Fuisse to Montrachet. Another was a
vertical of Chateau Montrose, the key entry being a 1918.
I’d just post a sign-up sheet at the store and people would
add their names. An energized circle of non-trade
enthusiasts were running their own tastings – one guy had a
horizontal tasting of scores of 1961 Burgundies over several
weeks. When the 1966 Bordeaux arrived, George Buehler hosted
a comprehensive series: that was an education. Tony Newcomb
ran huge tastings of Italian wines. You could do it then,
wines were more affordable.

FB
Sure. Remember those marvelous distributor-sponsored Boston
Sommelier Society tastings? And Pierre Seronde’s semi-public
Serpette tastings, where a $25 subscription would get you a
sip of 6O Burgundies! Let’s not even go there, Roger. How
has the internet changed BLM’s marketing?
RO
We’ve largely abandoned print newsletters, only one or two a
year. It’s mostly weekly e-mails now. Our e-letters are not
so much ‘buy-now!’ direct offers – though we package in
those pitches – as they are specific tasting notes from the
previous Saturday’s wine-tasting, availability quantities
and reiterating contact information. The style of the
tasting notes is immediate, in the present tense; I’m really
tasting the wines as I write. Some customers respond to the
notes; others come in with their lists of Robert Parker 9O+
wines. Loyalty to Classic Wines’ portfolio (Lurton brothers,
Giuseppe Mascarello, Guigal, Baumard) was a decision BLM
made [after Classic was sold] because customers knew
where they could find those brands. Fred’s whole idea was
based on a culture of stability. He chose those suppliers
almost always on the idea that they would grow together. He
didn’t always guess right – Guigal dualed to Boston Wine –
but Classic abandoned Sutter Home rather than get on their
saturation bandwagon. But they were producers interested in
measured growth and quality, rather than growth for its own
sake. Today, while making changes at the store, Lisa Miller
Ryan still shows interest in producers she visited on her
first trips with her mom and dad [Classic Wines
co-founder Burt Miller]. Lisa is laissez-faire, a people
person.

FB
What are some of your favorite wines over the years?
RO
I tend to be Eurocentric. I love Chenin Blanc (Vouvray,
Anjou). Riesling’s a go-to grape, especially Alsace and
lighter, dryer Germans. I also have fond memories of the
Remoissenet wines that I was ‘raised’ on. I tasted the
Bourgogne Blanc, especially Rejane, and it grabbed me; I’ve
still got some half-bottles going back to 1978. This wine
spoke to me in that voice, akin to those three-dimensional
attachments, where a wine lands on your tongue and fills
your nose. I recently tasted a 1997 Leroy Bourgogne Blanc
that reminded me of Remoissenets of old. Recently Verdelho
(Chapel Hill from Australia) struck me as having a
Savennieres like quality. Florent pulled out this separate
bottle – Verdelho, brought to his area by a local grower 15O
years ago, vines from Madeira. It was never accepted, just a
bastard grape blended in with the Chenin. He thought it
worthy of being vinified and bottled on its own, and, French
wine laws being what they are, he had to set up a paper
company to do it. It’s too much of a niche item to export,
but it knocked me off my feet that he’d go to all that
trouble. That’s the kind of mania that we love in Randall
Grahm [Bonny Doon]! Think of his Refosco and
Charbono. Yes, I like all kinds of red wines, and find great
pleasure in discovering an ‘obscure’ varietal or
appellation.

FB
Any pet peeves?
RO
Corky bottles. With screw-caps there’s no need for
that.

FB
Name one promising new (and old) world region.
RO
Argentina: I love their versions of Torrontes and Bonarda.
Spain’s Grenache wines packed with strawberry-like
fruit.